Newbie with big prob
 

Hey guys, I am totally new to Porsche, my bro passed away and he left me his 84 944, I dont know why but it wont run I changed the head gasket on it and put everything back together and when it came time to fire it up it backfired once and now nothing, I dont know if its just the timing or if the engine has seized up and doesnt work, any ideas? Thanks alot

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

The engine still turns over or no?

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Ya it tries to but no start

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Well then your engine is not seized up. Check your timing again. Make sure the belt didn't slip. If it did more than a tooth or 2, the valves will have hit the pistons.

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Thanks alot, just wondering if it did seize what would be the symptoms?

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Well I went out and tried to start it again and it just made kind of a ponk sound and nothin would happen, I am thinking its seized, whats an 84 with a seized engine worth

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

If the engine is siezed, it will not move over at all, like the battery is dead. With a seized motor, anywhere from 300-500 bucks (500 if the interior were perfect)

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Well I mean I turn the key and and try to start it and within like a second it makes a noise like a ponk and then it stops and thats it, it doesnt act like its trying to start

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

If you want to see if the motor is seized, get a deep well 24mm or 15/16" socket and rachet, put it on the crank pulley and turn try and turn the crank. If you can turn the crank (it should turn easy, then get kind of hard once you hit compression, then eventually will get easy again, and repeat), then the motor is not seized and you have other problems. If you can turn the crank, then put it at TDC and check your timing marks on the cam (Keep in mind the mark can be 180 degrees off, if it is, turn the crank 360 degrees, and it should line up (crank turns 2 times for every 1 rotation of the cam)

edit: Keep in mind the car needs to be in neutral.

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Whic pully is the crank pully

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Well I got under and tried to turn it and it would go a little then it would get to a point of where it wouldnt budge, I ended up tryin to lean against the wall and use my foot to push and no movement at all. Now if it is seized up is there anything I can do to unseize it?

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

If it is seized, the motor is done, but you shouldn't be able to move it at all if it is siezed. I have a feeling you did not line up the timing marks at all when you did the head gasket....did you just take the belt off and put it back on, not paying much attention to alignment of the cam etc. If you didn't know where the crank pulley was, that means you just pulled the head, without using the proper procedure. I would guess your head is now shot as well. These engines are interference motors. That means that if you do not line up the cam correctly, the valves in the head will smash into the pistons during operation.

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

First of all thanks alot, secondly a mechanic told us that the head gasket was shot which is why it was overheating and leaking oil. Well I am not sure of what all happened in the process of everything going back on, but like I said it goes a little ways then the thing wont budge. It didnt take me long to find out which one was the crank and it wouldnt go when it got to a certain point

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

What is TDC? You said "If you can turn the crank (it should turn easy, then get kind of hard once you hit compression, then eventually will get easy again, and repeat" Well all that works except when you say "eventually it will get easy again"

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

TDC is Top Dead Center for Cylinder #1. To replace a head gasket, you must place the crank at TDC for #1, which will have the line on the cam gear lined up with the mark on the rear distributor cover. Then you can remove the belts and remove the cam tower and head. When going back together, you line up your cam mark on the distributor housing again, before bolting the cam tower in place. If you did not watch this mark, but merely put the cam tower back on without really paying attention, and then put the belt on, then i am 99% sure your timing is way off. The valves are probably hitting the pistons which is why it won't turn very far. You might be able to turn the crank back a little counterclockwise, but it will hit the valves eventually that way as well, and stop you from turning the crank.

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Ok, lets try this:

Here is a shot of the cam mark on the cam gear. Notice the 2 red arrows should be lined up. They are not, which means in this position, the car is not at TDC. If your flywheel was at TDC, and you put the cam back on, even though the marks are close, your valves will hit the pistons.
http://karl.wilen.us/images/Cam1.JPG

Now on to the next picture:
This is with the engine at TDC. Notice how the cam marks are lined up.
http://karl.wilen.us/images/TimingMark.JPG

Now really, you shouldn't use the Cam mark to put the car at TDC. On the rear of the bellhousing is a rectangular opening. If you shine a flashlight through it, while the cam mark is lined up, then you should see the little pointer through the window pointing to a Line with an "OT" written next to it. If the pointer is lined up with the line, then you are at TDC. The cam gear can be a tooth or so off, which is why you should always go with the OT mark on the flywheel, then double check where the cam gear is at. Most of the time it will line up, or be 180 degrees off. If it is 180 degrees off, the crank and flywheel need to be turned 360 degrees and everything should line up.

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Really appreciate it PorscheDoc

your savin me alot of money. I will go and check and report back

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Heres a few pics
http://photobucket.com/albums/e156/h...Picture008.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/e156/h...Picture007.jpg

I think its only that far off because we tried to crank it

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Right, you would have to set the flywheel to top dead center, and then see where the cam mark is off. But since you can't move the crank that isn't possible. What you will have to do, is remove the cam tower again, then turn the crank to TDC, then replace the cam tower, making sure the cam mark is lined up.

www.clarks-garage.com will walk you through the process. All of the info is found in his "Garage Shop Manual" under the "C" for Camshaft section. Also, if you want the porsche workshop manuals, they can be found easily on the web in .pdf form if you do a little googling.

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

So it this the right thing to do "Camshaft (Timing) Belt and Balance Shaft Belt Removal "

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

There are a couple of his sections that you will need to complete this job:
Camshaft Assembly Removal
Camshaft Assembly Installation
Camshaft Timing Belt Installation
Camshaft (Timing) Belt and Balance Shaft Belt Tensioning.

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Great I will go out tonight and get started on it

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Well
Do you know how to do the front belts?
Did you install the sensor on the back of the cam correctly?


Here are the Manuals!
http://www.cannell.co.uk/Manuals.htm

RE: Newbie with big prob
 

Christ, stop posting the link to the manuals already, lol