996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

In a recent post, BMW550sport refered to the 996 911 as a Poor Man's Porsche. He has posted on numerous occassions referring to this model as cheap. Any feedback from the forum? Keep in mind, he doesn't have a Porsche and claims to drive a bimmer.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

I don't get this guy. He comes on talks trash about his BMW, slams Porsche owners and has the balls to say a 996 is a Poor Man's Porsche. No comment, it's not worth my time and energy. Not sure why he is even posting here, I would have cut him off a long time ago.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

I agree with cmilam, BMW550 acts almost adolescent in his over-enthusiasm and rather sweeping and exaggerated statements: I give technical advice on the Camaro forum, where I guess the average age of a member must be, oh, 19, and I see a lot of similar stuff there.

But there is something in what he says: 996s are relative bargains, although hardly a "poor mans" anything. For whatever reason (and everyone has his own opinion) 996s have depreciated much more than many previous Porsche models and a bit more than 997s seem to be depreciating now (but I think that will change as soon as there is a 998 or whatever). Be sure to keep this in perspective: they aren't cheap, but depreciation to 50% of new value at a point where another car is at 60% does save you 10% of the new price, so it is signifcant.

For that, you get a car that is very similar to the current model (997): there is very little between the two: the 997 has some exterior styling changes some people prefer over the 996 (I'm not one of them) and superior finish in the interior (more stitching on the door panels and dash, etc. The 997S does have a larger and different engine (better and more powerful than its rating would indicate, too), but by any standard a used 996 is a hell of a bargain: a standard 997C2 is very close to the most recent 997C2for about half the cost of a new 997.

But remember, a used 996 will not give good satisfaction if you maintain it and service it like a "poor man" -- it will require maintenance and service that tends to be more $$ than many other cars (and insignificantly different than that for a 997).

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Lee--you can pick up an 03 M3 for about $27K, that's about a 50% depreciation from new value. An 03 911 has about the same depreciation. Go on autotrader.com or cars.com and you'll find hundreds of used M3's for sale. A lot of the depreciation game is supply and demand. The 996 is hardly a poor man's Porsche.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Yeah, there are alot of both out there, and both are bargains if you like the particular type of car.

I really think the talk about 996s "depreciating a lot" is by comparison to the rate of depreciation of the prior model, the 993, and very few cars hold/increase in value like that model.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

I agree

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Gentlemen & Bimmer Boy--this isn't even about depreciation. That was a nice smoke screen bimmer boy threw out there, but it lacks credibility just like his other fictional claims. He knows that if he could he would own a Porsche and that's why he is on this Forum and not the BMW Forum. I've seen this many times before--Honda owners on Ferrari sites posting false claims and slamming their cars. It's all very funny and makes for good entertainment. It's commonly know as a "Wannabe"

Porsche owners are unique individuals, who like me, own their cars for the passion and excitement of the car and it's rich racing and perfromanceheritage. I love the look of the 996 over the 997and so do thousands of others. It's a personal thing. You can pick apart minor issues as you can any car--it's not perfect. How can you possibly compare the appearance inside or out to the BMW. Ugh, it's a fricken box on wheels. The Pontiac GT is much hotter.

By the way I prefer eating in a nice restaurant over McDonalds.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

cmilam--I agree. It's also about personal choice and the reason we are on the Porsche forum and not the BMW forum is because we actually own a Porsche. For him to claim that the 996 is a piece of junk is ludicrous. I know enough about BMW and it's reliability record to know that I would never own one. They have never appealed to me. Don't take my word for it, go on line and read the horror stories. I feel sorry for these people who spend all of that money and end up with a lemon...and it's not isolated cases either.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Hot911TT--you can actually buy an 03 M3 for the low $20's and an 05 M3 for about $27k--that's much more than 50% depreciation.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

To me, the bottom line on this subject is:

I know several M3 owners who, any time talk turns to cars of any type, always seem to steer the discussion around to theM3 vs. Porsche subject and make certain to mention howtheir M3 is "everything a Porsche is and more."

But I don't know any Porsche owner thatever brings up the M3,or even thinks aboutthem that much.

Sort of tells me everything I need to know about the cars, . . . and the owners.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

The "Porsche Wannabes" are usually very insecure.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Doc--I read most of the ugly posts before you deleted them. BMW550sport has posted nothing but ugly comments about Porsche owners, using some very interesting language. Can't he be banned from the forum?

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Already appealed to the higher ups, so hopefully it will be taken care of soon.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Thanks and thank you for cleaning things up. I was getting frustrated myself.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

I didn't realize any of it had been going on other than a few posts, until I went back and read through a lot of his relpies. I am sure he will make a few more before his IP is banned.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Hopefully people will just ignore him. Honestly don't know why he doesn't join the BMW forum.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Iagree ignore his comments. Why do you care what he thinks?

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Thanks Doc and I apologize for getting emotional with this guy. He knew how to fire me up. Hope he joins the BMW Forum. Take care.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

As a 996 Owner, I feel rich and wealthy and proud to drive my Speed Yellow Carrera. All I can say to Bimmer Boy is that if I had to drive a BMW I really would feel poor, in body, mind, and spirit.
As I said in another post driving a BMW is like having sex using a rubber boot for a prophylactic https://www.germanautoforums.com/upf...ey/boosign.gif, compared to the sensual orgasm of driving a Porsche.https://www.germanautoforums.com/upf.../badbadbad.gif

(Apologies to the Moderator for such a riskee' turn of phrase!)
Regards Big Bob

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Here here!

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

I agree! This is a Porsche Enthusiast Forum and not a BMW Forum. I don't mind a good debate, but it was out of control with BMW550sport posting ridiculous posts and engaging in personal attacks. I've always been a Porsche enthusiast and it's not something I picked up a few years ago. I've been a Porsche fan since I was a little kid. It's not about having the fastest or coolest car in your garage, it's about being part of a rich tradition and long standing history of exceptional automobiles. I love reading the books and watching the DVD's. The 996 is no better or worse than any other model. There are repair issues with every car. It's all about personal choice.
I'm glad to see we can get back to normal with BMW550sport off the air.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Anyone with aTT, GT2 or GT3's in the Chicago areainterested in runningmy modded (503 WHP) 2008 Mercedes CLK 63 Black Series? Not coming over here to start any trouble, Porsches have been the benchmark for so long, just want to get my shot at the heavyweight belt. I honestly want to do a 1/4 mile race and some laps on a road course. I ran a couple last fall when I was stock now I want to see what I can do. Let me know, everyone on my MB forum has been asking what I can do against a GT2.



[IMG]local://upfiles/6127/E4C9590F741E4BC3BF28C41232A2EA96.jpg[/IMG]

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Mmmm clk. Those are bad ass cars!

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

jrcart--I'd love to run a few laps with you but I'm in the Connecticut area. I hit the track once a week and run against some pretty hot cars.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Want to run against a Camaro?

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Well said cmilam!

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Lol, somehow I get the feeling that would not be a fair race :)

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

You never know Doc. I run against more powerful cars all of the time and beat them on the track. A lot of these guys aren't expereinced enough to get the full potential from their cars. I've been running the track for about 10 years now and have really improved over the years. It's always funny when these guys bring these hot cars to the track, go all out on thestraight and then piss their pants in the turns...that's when I blow past them.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Where all do you run at? We hit Brainerd, Road America, HPT, Hastings, MAM, and Hallet the most. We are planning a run out to VIR this year as well. I would love to run mid ohio and sebring!

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

I run at the Stafford Motor Speedway, it's a 1/2 mile oval. Not too exciting but fun.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

I've been through Kansas a few times. They have a nice speedway there near Kansas City.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

What tracks do you run at? I am going to be running at an Audi eventwith several friends at Loudon in late May. Is that close to you? BTW what do you run and what mods do you have done to it? Have you run at any tracks further west, Mid-Ohio?

I have mine set up primarily for road courses. I'm running EvoSport long tube headers, 3" w/X pipe,cat delete, Kleeman resonators,EvoSort Pulley, Powerchip ECU re-program, EvoSport intake, steel brake lines, 19" x 11" Dymag Carbon Fiber Wheels, 305/30/19 DOT R Corsas, H&R springs w/ fully adjustable coil-overs, one-off carbon fiber front spliter and larger rear wing. roll cage and sparco harnesses. Makes over 500hp at the wheels on motor, no turbo orkompressor.

To the person with the comment about the Camaro, I'll run you, but if you are refering to the one in your sig you're nuts 9's!!!!! My car runs mid 11's on street tires, I'm having a set of 17" wheels made so I can run some drag slicks, should be good for a couple tenths.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

I run all over the mid-west, Road America, Gingerman, Gratan, Mid-Ohio, AutoBahn Country Club andBlackhawk. I am an experienced racer, I raced superbikes for3 years ametuer and 2 years AMA Pro. I won the CCS national ametuer championship in 1997 as well as earned the most wins in a single season as an ameatur (the record still stands).So I am not your average driver/racer. I can turn 2:21's at Road America in my M3. Not had the benz out there yet. I can ride a bike better than I can drive a car, but I am no chump in a car either.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

I'm running an 04 911 Turbo C4 with uprgraded fabspeed exhaust, performance chip, K&N intake kit. I'm only at about 460hp. Like I said, I've run against more powerful cars with less experienced driversand beat them. You have a nice car!

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

I ride bikes but don't race them. I run the tracks back east in CT and MA mostly. Have raced numerous amateur events and won several. I found my AWD is a great asset when pushing my Turbo hard through tight turns, that where I leave most behind, even the experienced drivers. Many of the pros at our track are even amazed when they see me run. The more you push in the turns, the tighter that damn thing grips. It's fricken amazing!!!

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Yea, the Kansas speedway is about 10 minutes from here, the only thing we do out there is the big brother big sister charity event. Our road course is Heartland Park Topeka which is 40 miles to the west, and is the closest road course. Hastings, Gateway, Mid America (MAM), and Hallet are all within a 4 hour drive. Road America is about 10, and Brainerd is about 8. Had a few guys run down to Texas a few weeks ago for Eagles Canyon and they approved, so looks like we will be heading down there as well...which is about 7 hours.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Doc--you're a busy man!!!!I've only played on the track a few times, but love watching some great races.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

Heartland Park (Topeka, KS) was one of my favorite tracks to race on when I raced motorcycles. I loved tracks that were "loose" or slick and they don't come any looser than Heartland Park, there is so much crack sealer on that track it was like riding on ice. It really seperated the men from the boys when it was hot or wet...yes we raced in the rain. That track has it all, turn one is a very high speed yet technical turn and then the next several turs are a series of S's, if you get one of them wrong you just shot your entire lap. Really fun track. I would love to get my car out there, but that tunnel onto the front straight could cause some expensive damage.

Let me know if you ever make it up to any tracks in my neck of the woods. Isn't there a Porsche and Audi event coming up at Gateway in St. Louis (Madison, IL)pretty soon? I thought one of my buddies with an Audi mentioned that to me. How far are you from St. Louis? Only about 3.5 hours for me.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

They resurfaced the track last year, and it is smooth as butter now. Also late last year they took out the double 90 degree S (turns 1&2), and made it more of a 45/45, so it is much higher speed now after you come over alpha zero. Also 8 and 9 on the back side was straightened out slightly , so you can really hump it through there fast.

We are about about the same distance from gateway as you.

RE: 996 a Poor Man's Porsche?
 

So I assume none of you are from the Chicago area? Kind of weird, Porsches are a dime a dozen around here. Just hard to find a GT2 or GT3 with an owner willing to track it.

BTW, I apologize for going off topic, I just did not want to start a thread asking if anyone wanted to race me, I thought that would have come off as cocky. As I mentioned, I'm not here to pick any fights or start any crap, just sincerely want to run a GT2 and GT3 to gauge where I am performance wise.