porsche doc is right...
#3
03-31-2008, 06:08 PM
RE: porsche doc is right...
Well, I think the objections were to the name calling, and etc. You sort of have to expect people on a Porsche forum to show favoritism: happens in kind on every other forum I take part in -- it's that nature of the beast.
As to BMW making good cars, I don't mind any person expressing his or her opinion, even strongly, as long as they are respectful of others' opinions. One thing to always be sensitive to is that cars are very personal to a lot of owners, even to the extent that some of their ego is tied up in it: attack their car and they take it personally. And for many, good or bad, their car is all they have and they're proud of it. I always try to keep that in mind.
As BMWs. I'm an engineer by training and professional, so I always look beneath the styling and marketing hype to the machinery and the numbers. Personally I think BMW used to build great cars -- at times the best in the world, whereas now they build mostly just good cars, equal to anything in their class but not consistently better, but that's my opinion and I'm not going to diss someone who dis-agrees with me. However, I really like the BMW 1 series, although I have not driven one: it does remind me of the early 70s 2002, etc., which was one of my favorites of all time.
As to BMW making good cars, I don't mind any person expressing his or her opinion, even strongly, as long as they are respectful of others' opinions. One thing to always be sensitive to is that cars are very personal to a lot of owners, even to the extent that some of their ego is tied up in it: attack their car and they take it personally. And for many, good or bad, their car is all they have and they're proud of it. I always try to keep that in mind.
As BMWs. I'm an engineer by training and professional, so I always look beneath the styling and marketing hype to the machinery and the numbers. Personally I think BMW used to build great cars -- at times the best in the world, whereas now they build mostly just good cars, equal to anything in their class but not consistently better, but that's my opinion and I'm not going to diss someone who dis-agrees with me. However, I really like the BMW 1 series, although I have not driven one: it does remind me of the early 70s 2002, etc., which was one of my favorites of all time.
#4
03-31-2008, 07:22 PM
RE: porsche doc is right...
I agree, "never make fun of a man's ride. It's either everything he wants, or all he can afford." Like what you like, and a little HEALTHY rivalry is fine. Lets just not let it degenerate into name-calling.
#6
03-31-2008, 08:42 PM
RE: porsche doc is right...
What I hope everyone here has in common is that while most of us may drive Porsches on this board (obviously as it is a Porsche board), but when it comes down to it, everyone here is a car guy. If you weren't, you wouldn't waste time on a board about cars. It doesn't matter if it is a Porsche, BMW, Camaro, etc...to someone, that is their pride and joy, and everyone should respect that. Lee W. has a Camaro that would probably kick the crap out of anything here in a straight line, but I am guessing it doesn't have all the creature comforts that his Porsche has. I'm not a Camaro guy, but anyway you look at it, a 9 second car is a heck of an accomplishment and that is pretty cool. We are all probably guilty of saying "why the heck would you put money into that ford or bmw or 914, lol....", but hopefully that is as far as it goes. Porsches are not the greatest engineering marvel to hit the road (believe me, I modify and improve their inequalities all day long)....but niether is a BMW, Honda, Ford, etc....they all have unique features that make them fun to drive/own for that given individual.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but we all should be respectful of others when expressing that opinion. We are all probably guilty of doing the opposite. I know it is hard when someone comes looking to escalate a situation. A good debate is fun now and again as long as everyone keeps it clean. People tend to ruffle feathers more when they are behind a keyboard because they aren't afraid to say anything. Try to act like you are talking to that person face to face, and you will find that the conversations stay much more civil. I always tell my employees (and this is straight from the 80's movie roadhouse) no matter how a customer deals with you on the phone or in person......"be nice." If you keep being nice when they are cussing and swearing at you, all of a sudden they will immediately calm down because they realize how much of a jackass they just looked like. It is like a lightswitch. Bang, all of a sudden it turns off.
We are all freinds here with the same passion, and should be having fun
P.S. If a thread gets out of hand, please PM me so I can monitor it. I went back and deleted about 80 posts last night that I hadn't read before, and I had no idea there was this large of an issue before I happened on the post last night.
And thats all i'll i've got to say about that (sorry, another movie).
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but we all should be respectful of others when expressing that opinion. We are all probably guilty of doing the opposite. I know it is hard when someone comes looking to escalate a situation. A good debate is fun now and again as long as everyone keeps it clean. People tend to ruffle feathers more when they are behind a keyboard because they aren't afraid to say anything. Try to act like you are talking to that person face to face, and you will find that the conversations stay much more civil. I always tell my employees (and this is straight from the 80's movie roadhouse) no matter how a customer deals with you on the phone or in person......"be nice." If you keep being nice when they are cussing and swearing at you, all of a sudden they will immediately calm down because they realize how much of a jackass they just looked like. It is like a lightswitch. Bang, all of a sudden it turns off.
We are all freinds here with the same passion, and should be having fun
P.S. If a thread gets out of hand, please PM me so I can monitor it. I went back and deleted about 80 posts last night that I hadn't read before, and I had no idea there was this large of an issue before I happened on the post last night.
And thats all i'll i've got to say about that (sorry, another movie).
#10
04-01-2008, 07:52 AM
RE: porsche doc is right...
About the only thing I object to is the name calling and the lack of respect to any other person's opinion.
A good many people here are "car enthusiasts" first and Porsche (or BMW, or M-B) enthusiasts second -- I count myself as one of those. But some people are devoted, even fanatical, about one brand only and that's okay with me, although I recognize they often get in other people's faces with their enthusiasm.
Regardless, I've found it is rewarding to keep a very wide breadth of interest: I like talk to/with just about any type of car enthusiast and I just filter out the piffle and over enthusiasm if it gets in the way.
People may consider me strange for this, butat car shows Iactually enjoy looking at/talking with "Ricers" and "Low-riders" -- neither ismy style, I agree, but both groups get disrespect from so many.I view both a bit anthropologically (as sub-cultures, or tribes with their traditions) and frankly not a lot different fundamentally than groups of old sports car enthusiasts (British Leland "nuts") or . . . .even Porsche enthusaists (sorry guys, don't beat me up). Ricers and low-riders care about their cars even if very differently than others, and you do learn something ( at least I do) by tailking with them. It may not make alot of sense to get 500 WHP out of a Honda Civic with 32 lbs pressure from a turbo so big it sticks up out of the hood, or to build an air suspension that can bounce a '61 Impala off the ground with a few flicks of the wrist, but it takes money and a lot of engineering to do eitherso it is interesting to talk to a person who has done that, and maybe ultimately either is no more "senseless" than spending $100K on a car with a tiny back seat and about two cubic feet of trunk space).
And by the way, PorscheDoc is right about the Camaro. It is licensed and usually driven to the track, but it has a full roll cage so getting in and out is a pain, even if the doors do open. The engine is bolted to the frame with solid motor mounts. The transmission is heavy duty and tough to shift. the clutch is a modified Spec 3 with really stiff springs and a hair trigger. It has no sound insulation, a locker rear axle, and very limited muffling. And it gets 9 mpg on the highway because it runs very rich at low throttle. All proof that my son andI are, in our own way, just as wacko as any other extreme car nut, Ricer, Low rider, or whatever.
A good many people here are "car enthusiasts" first and Porsche (or BMW, or M-B) enthusiasts second -- I count myself as one of those. But some people are devoted, even fanatical, about one brand only and that's okay with me, although I recognize they often get in other people's faces with their enthusiasm.
Regardless, I've found it is rewarding to keep a very wide breadth of interest: I like talk to/with just about any type of car enthusiast and I just filter out the piffle and over enthusiasm if it gets in the way.
People may consider me strange for this, butat car shows Iactually enjoy looking at/talking with "Ricers" and "Low-riders" -- neither ismy style, I agree, but both groups get disrespect from so many.I view both a bit anthropologically (as sub-cultures, or tribes with their traditions) and frankly not a lot different fundamentally than groups of old sports car enthusiasts (British Leland "nuts") or . . . .even Porsche enthusaists (sorry guys, don't beat me up). Ricers and low-riders care about their cars even if very differently than others, and you do learn something ( at least I do) by tailking with them. It may not make alot of sense to get 500 WHP out of a Honda Civic with 32 lbs pressure from a turbo so big it sticks up out of the hood, or to build an air suspension that can bounce a '61 Impala off the ground with a few flicks of the wrist, but it takes money and a lot of engineering to do eitherso it is interesting to talk to a person who has done that, and maybe ultimately either is no more "senseless" than spending $100K on a car with a tiny back seat and about two cubic feet of trunk space).
And by the way, PorscheDoc is right about the Camaro. It is licensed and usually driven to the track, but it has a full roll cage so getting in and out is a pain, even if the doors do open. The engine is bolted to the frame with solid motor mounts. The transmission is heavy duty and tough to shift. the clutch is a modified Spec 3 with really stiff springs and a hair trigger. It has no sound insulation, a locker rear axle, and very limited muffling. And it gets 9 mpg on the highway because it runs very rich at low throttle. All proof that my son andI are, in our own way, just as wacko as any other extreme car nut, Ricer, Low rider, or whatever.